Thursday, 16 February 2012
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Chef Anne Thornton is Amidst Allegations
image courtesy of Food Network
If you're a fan of Chef Anne Thornton's show "Desserts First", you'll be sad to find that it will be discontinued. You'll be even more disappointed if you've heard about her alleged food plagiarism.
According to the New York Post, the star's recipes were considered too similar to those of Martha Stewart and Barefoot Contessa. Thornton's recipe for Mascarpone-Stuffed French Toast was also much like a recipe found in the cookbook "The Essence of Chocolate". While a Food Network spokeswoman said that the show was discontinued because of ratings, it seems rather convenient to me that her show would get cancelled after Thornton supposedly copied other people's recipes. Thornton insisted that her recipes were original.
I feel like it would be pretty difficult to prove that the recipes weren't copied because so many measurements in various dishes, especially in desserts, are similar anyways. What do you think about this issue?
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- From: gmgao
- Name: gmgao
- About Me: I like food, food tastes good. -The Descendents. I couldn't have put it better myself. I love cooking, entertaining, and trying out different restaurants. I hope to one day work for a food magazine so we'll see where life takes me :)
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Comments (23)
Recipes can be considered plagiarism? Really? Martha Stewart absolutely has a monopoly on every lemon bar recipe in existence?
I think it's hard to say so-&-so's recipe is the original recipe & that everyone else copied it. That's like saying Paula Deen has a recipe for fried chicken & another cookbook has it the same way. It's fried chicken, nothing fancy about it so it's pretty hard to put your own spin on it & claim that its YOUR recipe. *shrug* I find that hard to believe.
Martha Stewart & Ina Garden are so alike, it's ridiculous. Neither of them are saying one another is copying each other.
Also I was watching the Pioneer Woman the other day & she aired a recipe of Pico De Gallo. How original is that? Food Network needs to get it together...
Recipe's are soo hard to tell, I would think, since they're all so similar. Especially with desserts.
Not only that but if you have a super secret family recipe, and let's say it calls for soy sauce and white pepper. If I ask if these recipes contain these ingredients at your restaurant by law you have to tell me. Allergies.
Ina Garten is one to talk. There is nothing original about her.
Most recipes for a particular dish are similar anyway. A different combination of ingredients will not yield the same result, especially baked goods. Those two are just jealous a new younger, prettier girl is in town, and they feel it has threatened their business.
@AmberRaffile@xanga - I totally agree! Ina Garden is so plain with her cooking, I don't care what anyone says about that... She is not original at all. Plus she is boring, I can't stand watching her show & hearing that awkward laugh of hers! Ugh.
@NeedsMore_ButterYall@xanga - She's so fake, and I have no respect for her. She declined meeting with a sick child from The Make a Wish Foundation because she had a book signing. She can keep her stale personality in the Hamptons.
I didn't know recipes could be pirated...
Unless she actually broke in and stole recipe cards, I think it would be pretty hard to prove.
Who cares, as long as it tastes good what's the problem. It's food for crying out loud...I have no idea who she is nor do I watch the food network, but if she can bake/cook and it tastes better than Martha's I see no issue.
@AmberRaffile@xanga - they dont have to tell you anything by law, they just cant give you bad information. "i dont know" or "we dont share that" are legal responses.
@foreverdiet@xanga - If a customer claims to have an allergy or a health aversion to a specific ingredient the restaurant is not supposed to say "we do not share that". A responsible and real restaurant wouldn't shrug off a health concern for a customer.
First lesson in the restaurant industry is good news travels quick, bad news travels 10x as fast, not twice as fast.
Any trained staff is required to know what goes into food, and now cooks have to have a certification (ServSafe). We have the answers so "I don't know" isn't going to cut it, and if they pretend to find the answer, they can get sued big time.
It is highly unlikely that any successful running, high volume restaurant or cafe would not have a trained staff or have a legal backbone, however, there ARE establishments that say "oh no this isn't in there."
So the answers that you said which may be legal given a circumstance, is pretty much suicide or homicide.
Those accusing her of plagiarism have no clue of what they are talking about: the work pastry chef is not exclusive by nature. It is totally normal that there are similarities between pastry recipes. If it is decided that for X recipe it takes X teaspoons of sugar, that is because that recipe has been tried many times and the best way of doing it is to those X teaspoon
There are only so many ways to make oh I dunno: chocolate cake. Baking is so ingredient perfect that variation is not always thick on the ground.
@AmberRaffile@xanga - That's absolutely not true. I have both peanut and lemon allergies. I can walk into a Japanese steakhouse and feel fairly certain there will be no peanut anything used, simply because that is such a high profile allergy nowadays. However, lemon is in *everything*, and is often masked as "natural flavors" in everything from tomato based products to numerous condiments. Asking a chef directly if there is lemon in a sauce won't yield truthful results when 1) generic squirt bottles are filled with sauces in a different room and no ingredients are listed, and 2) no one bothers reading the lists of ingredients in their sauces in the first place. Lemon is so prevalent across the board in so many prepared foods and restaurant dishes, and most people (yes, even chefs) are so uninformed about food allergies that it's impossible for me to expect never to run into a lemon allergy in an restaurant, no matter how truthful all the workers think they are. I know this is completely beside the point of this article, but you can't say unequivically that all restaurant workers are trained in safe food in that respect, and yes, I HAVE been shrugged off with "I never heard of a lemon allergy" by a master chef, who then proceeded to clean the grill with a fresh cut lemon and grill all our food on it. If that happens in front of my face, what happens where I can't see what's going on?
As for plaigerism, anyone making money off what they do has to put a personal spin on it. That's why food companies put the company names in front of ingredients on recipes published on bags and boxes of food they sell, i.e. Nestle tollhouse cookies names its chocolate chips, and no one else can claim that recipe per vatim down to the jot and tittle. Same with food network stars, they publish recipes online, sell cookbooks. If you load your recipe onto cooks.com, you'll find copies galore spread all over the internet because other recipe sites just grab and copy, like news sites grab and copy from each other. These aren't necessarily copyright. But if Anne Thornton has recipes published on the food network dotcom, that is copyright.
But ratings is always a show killer, irregardless of your level of controversy.
@bluejacky@xanga - Are you aware of what a master chef is and how that certification process works? I find it very possible you did not speak with 1 of 156 master chefs on the planet directly regarding your allergy to lemon. What you experienced is common because many places, especially franchised ones, aren't ran by professionally trained cooks.
Keep in mind that a master chef is the highest title someone can obtain in the food industry, and you have to be invited by other master chefs to take this test. People train their entire lives for something like that, so even though I'm most certain it wasn't your intention to be disrespectful, please be mindful that it is obsured to claim a master chef was in your presence and shrugged off your food aversion.
How were you able to go up and complain directly near the kitchen by the pass where food comes out and complain? In the future, please keep in mind this isn't sanitary for you to do so. I'm sure many people don't care, but it's true, it's also ridiculous. The fact he was cleaning his equipment with lemon shows his lack of knowledge.We season our equipment which requires oil. He was most likely a line cook who had no formal training. I'm sorry for your experience.
I'm sure the chef or most likely line cook was annoyed by you complaining about your lemon allergy and shooed you away. Honestly, I don't blame him or her. You're in their space and they're trying to do their job. You could have simply gotten the front of the house manager to ask the cook that question for you.
I've had whiny customers come up to me in the back of the kitchen and I'd dismiss them and tell them to talk to front of house if they're whining you know why? Because they're putting themselves in danger by being in an active kitchen without proper attire (like slip resistant shoes) and most likely do not have clean hands or are wearing hairnets, or are wearing perfume. I want them out because I want my customers safe.
Also, master chefs do not cook on the hotline.
I never denied that sleazy restaurants would shrug you off and just because a restaurant looks nice doesn't mean it isn't sleazy. Rules are broken 50% of the time in common restaurants. Most people do not care. Most people also speed on the freeway, but it's not legal is it?
Staff is not required to tell you an entire recipe or the ratio, but they are required to tell you if something has lemon in it or not. As far as squeeze bottles with lemon etc, if they are using store bought stuff, then they have to unfortunately tell you they cannot find that information. Why would anyone want to eat at a restaurant and spend their hard earned money for store bought sauces anyways? This is a prime example of lack of business knowledge and the whole mom and pop shop with no business background. These places more often than not fail.
I' waiting for someone to whale at me and say they've eaten at the same mom and pop place for 20 years yada yada... yes. Those people did their homework and thus why they have a successful place, and care about their long term customers who are like second family. They'll most likely find an answer regarding allergies right?
As far as sauces being made and chefs/cooks not knowing? This is ridiculous if true in places. Staff are to be trained to know what goes into a sauce, dish etc. The servers are as well. If one of the cooks does not know an answer, someone does, because each station cook has a lead, and I know I knew everything about my station and informed other cooks who took over when I was rarely not there. We all prepare our own food and sauces, and we train our prep cooks how to make them as well.
So to assume that we are unaware of who does what is kind of insulting. We spend anywhere from 8-15 hours and leads like myself were working 6 days a week. So please understand that we aren't mindless and we don't stand around waiting for orders.
I actually have an education in this field and we go over contracting, legalities etc in the industry but most people assume we simply learn how to cook. any educated establishment knows it could be sued even under fraudulent circumstances any good restaurant that is that isn't mom and pop owned and operated without any credentials or experience in the business. We aren't trained I be cooks. We are trained to be chefs, which means we have have a business backbone, and have to have the business aspect of the industry in different forms such as catering, cafe, beverage legalities, high volume, fine dining, and private chef contracting and credentials in line. You start out washing dishes, and end up doing paperwork, networking, and seasoning your staff.
The only thing copy written from a nestle toll house recipe is having the name nestle in it and using those chocolate chips.
I can take the exact same recipe and simply write "16 oz chocolate chips" Nobody has a copy right on it. They have the name Nestlé trademarked. I could still profit from that by advertising their product for free, by claiming that it is my favorite brand as recommend, or not even adding in the name. Please do not argue with me on something I actually went to school for and do full time. This is my career toure arguing with me about. As I've said, culinary training and business go hand in hand web you take an extensive course, instead of just the cooking aspect of it. I know what I'm talking about. It's frustrating when people assume they know what they're talking s out because it seems normal to be able to sue over a copies recipe etc. it's wrong if it's true, if she were using the same photos taken for the other authors' books they'd have a case.
They don't. The recipes can be exact and nobody can do a thing about it. I garuntee you thousands of peope's grandmas have the same super secret apple pie recipe. Everyone makes ham and cheese sandwiches every day. You can't patent the recipe. You can only trademark the type of cheese you make or own. That doesn't mean someone else can't profit or share that recipe whether or not they use your cheese.
I am also a published food stylist. You'd be amazed on what goes on with that aspect of the industry.You'd think advertisers would get sued. NOPE!!!
Hope this information helped. I know you mean well in your argument, and you'll most likely stand by what you say, which is fine, but I'm right. This is my career that I live and breath. Even being on leave for an injury at the moment, I am still working.
This whole plagiarism thing is getting a little extreme.
@AmberRaffile@xanga - i know! i've watched her shows, and the amount of times she attempts to stress its "authenticity" she's just saying "isn't that just so french/italian/etc.?" even if it is, it's just like... bleh.
Sorry, my comment box isn't working so I had to revert to the html box.
Anyway, wow.
"As far as sauces being made and chefs/cooks not knowing? This is ridiculous if true in places. Staff are to be trained to know what goes into a sauce, dish etc."
Not if it's an imported sauce from Japan or China. Some of those sauces take months to make. And I know, I make ALL of my own sauces from scratch now because of the lemon allergy. It's dang hard to find hoisin or teriyaki without lemon, and asking a chef to whip up one from scratch just for me is a tad arrogant.
Ok, that's 3 times I've lost my original comment.
"I'm sure the chef or most likely line cook was annoyed by you complaining about your lemon allergy and shooed you away. Honestly, I don't blame him or her. You're in their space and they're trying to do their job. You could have simply gotten the front of the house manager to ask the cook that question for you."
We were seated around grills that doubled as tables out on the floor. The chef was introduced as a "master chef" in his line of work, very prestigious and years of study. I attempted to be discreet about the lemon allergy thing, really sux having a table full of people look at you, I certainly didn't wander off into a kitchen, egads. Do you even know what a Japanese steakhouse is? This was by no means a sleezy restaurant, this guy was not a line cook.
I have worked as a head cook in several big kitchens. I'm not dumb. You inferred a great deal. You came across more knee jerk than professional.
@AmberRaffile@xanga - i also have servsafe certification and allergy certification. but theres a difference between responsible and legal. i didnt say what they SHOULD say, just that those would be legal responses, at least in my state
You obviously had a problem with my original statement first and when I see people fly off the handle I smirk a little.
You used to work as a head cook. I did too before i went into fine dining. You should know better than to go into a kitchen when you are a guest at a restaurant and not complain and moan, and you should pick and choose where you eat carefully being such an expert.
Yes I'm sure a certified master chef dismissed you, and yes I've been to Japanese steak houses before I live in California and travel a lot for work.
You're telling me I'm less than professional yet you obviously have a problem with me and continue to insult me. You engaged in this conversation with a motive to prove me wrong using a petty and immature attitude and within the first four words of your first response it shows. I don't wish to engage in such juvenile conversation, so I would appreciate it if you left me alone and fed someone else your stories.
Instead of trying to prove your ego right, try educating people like myself if I'm apparently wrong next time. You're just trying to attract a fight, and I'm far past my days of humiliating ignorant people using their own arguments online.
It's called growing up.
Thanks!